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I have seen that movie. It isn't on the list of things I've watched on Netflix (I've rented 183 DVDs and streamed far more), so it must have been on Amazon Prime. I don't remember having any conversation about it with anyone, even Bill. Maybe someone mentioned it on Facebook.

I love to look at old people and think about what they were like when they were young. I wonder if anybody looks at me and wonders what I was like when I was young.

Wouldn't it be great if the HuffPo people actually had real encounters with people in the South and found out who we really are?


Who are we in the South? After watching the Michael Moore movie "Where to Invade Next" over the weekend I'm thinking I may only vote for women the rest of my life.

I didn't realize you were a Sarah Palin fan.

So what did you think of that movie, Janet? Am I over-praising it?

I think the most likely explanation for its presence on our Netflix q is that some years ago, fairly early in our Netflix career, Netflix recommended it and my wife put it on the queue. Not surprising that she wouldn't remember it. I don't remember putting half the stuff on there that I know I must have.

Regarding thinking about what old people looked like when they were young, I suspect most people have to get somewhat old before they do that. When you're young yourself you think of them as having always been that way, just some sort of different species.

Ha! Is she running for office?

BTW that was a very interesting movie. I had no idea what it was about, but from the title I figured wars that we waged and where we should do so next. It was about various countries in Europe doing things that MM wanted to take back to the USA so we could do them here.

One was Iceland and the idea of women being in charge. They elected a female president in 1975. And when the banks messed everything up there, they put the bankers in jail.

Other countries discussed were: Italy, France, Germany, Finland, Norway, Tunisia, Slovenia and Portugal.

Yes, I know that Michael Moore bends everything to his will in his pseudo documentaries, but I am sure that there is much real there too.

It made me depressed to live here, which already happens daily if I watch the news.

Not that I know of but I'm sure she could be drafted if enough fans begged her to return.

I think it's a mistake to be much influenced
by anything Michael Moore says. He's not an honest man. Even Pauline Kael, looking behind the scenes of his first big success (I think), the one about General Motors, found it seriously distorted. I have no doubt it would be really easy to go around to different countries and find things there that are better than things here, or the reverse.

"Wouldn't it be great if the HuffPo people actually had real encounters with people in the South and found out who we really are?"

Maybe they will. Depends a lot on them. There's a person I've encountered on Facebook, someone you know at least casually, who's not from the South but lived here for some years and seems to loath it.

That's why I stated "pseudo documentary", because I know MM bends things to meet his needs so does not necessarily tell the whole story. He has an agenda that a documentary filmmaker should not have. But I agree with his agenda so am happy to go along. This film is not overtly political, unless you see looking at positives in other countries and comparing them to negatives here as political. Showing prison living in Norway, and then cutting to pictures of black men being beat up in American prisons. There is probably more truth to that than not.

"That's why I stated..." I know, but I thought it needed to be said more strongly. :-)

Seriously, from what I've seen and read, I think his level of dishonesty is a disservice to us all, since his work is considered documentary. I would say the same if he were on the right.

I'm sure the Norway prison contrast is valid. On the other hand there are very few black people in Norway at all, and in general it is pretty homogenous ethnically, not remotely as diverse as the U.S. Not to mention having a population about the size of Alabama's.

But I agree with his agenda so am happy to go along.

So, it's all right to lie if it gets you what you want?


I don't think he lies. He gives the information he wants to in his own way. Just like a biased cable news channel. Except he is more entertaining. No one goes to Michael Moore for news.

I don't need to defend Michael Moore, let's talk about The Benedict Option again!

Well, that's good because he's indefensible.



Do you ever just hit the pause button when you want a better look at something?


No one goes to Michael Moore for news.

Nor sure about that. I remembering reading a few years ago that a whole lot of people got their news from Jon Stewart's nightly show, for instance.

Yes, I think there have been some studies indicating that that's true. I watched him a few times. Seemed to me that his major talent was for smirking.

As for Moore, I have a grudge against him from 2003 when the Iraq war was beginning. I read some of his stuff as part of a genuine effort to understand what was going on, and soon figured out that he was not interested in the truth. He predicted that the U.S. would lose and walked right up to the edge of saying that he wanted it too. That offended me. But his Fahrenheit 911 did a lot to stoke the partisan rage that's only gotten worse since then.

I'm not sure I understand your question, Janet. Yes, I do sometimes use the pause button when watching a movie or tv show. Is that all you mean?

Oh, of course, you must be referring to watching Civilization. Yes, I do.

The only thing I really remember about the Civilization series is that Kenneth Clark pronounced "Mary Magdalene" as "Mary Magdalini". His personal idiosyncrasy? Or is it also done that way by others?

Maclin, I remember thinking it was good, but I don't remember it clearly. I'm wondering if someone was comparing it to Juno.


Could be. I don't remember Juno that well but I think it would not be a real close comparison.

I didn't notice that, Marianne, but I did notice several words that he pronounced differently from standard American. Can't recall any specifically now though.

Not a close comparison, but both pro-life in an in typical way.


A couple of reviews I just found pretty much show why I've never even heard of Mother and Child:

Here's the Guardian:

This well-acted, overlong movie centres on three women, strangers to one another, their lives linked by their attitude to motherhood, and a Catholic adoption agency catering for well-heeled residents of Los Angeles. ... It's a highly contrived affair with a barely concealed, deeply conservative Catholic agenda, and it has the ring of a cracked bell calling the righteous to prayer.
And here's the Telegraph:
Mother and Child was meant to be Annette Bening’s Oscar bid back in 2009, until festival audiences preferred The Kids Are All Right. This explains how long it’s taken to cross the pond – without the oxygen of an awards campaign, it had no urgent reason to land.
In The Kids Are All Right, Benning plays a lesbian who had children via a sperm donor.

"deeply conservative Catholic agenda" = fails to portray a nun as mean and self-righteous, and fails to promote abortion. Oh yeah, and one person says a prayer, but is not made to look stupid. Pretty retrograde.

And still these people believe that *they* are the open-minded ones.

I'll grant the point about it being contrived, though. The plot is a bit far-fetched.

That said "untypical" before autocorrect mauled it.


I see from wikipedia that the director, Rodrigo Garcia, is the same fellow that made Last Days in the Desert a couple years ago, the movie about Christ's temptation in the wilderness (which I have yet to watch).

Fwiw, Mother and Child has a 64 on Metacritic and a 79 on RT. Not too shabby.

~~~Kenneth Clark pronounced "Mary Magdalene" as "Mary Magdalini".~~~

Surprised he didn't say "Mary Maudlin," like the college.

I saw a preview for Last Days in the Desert on the Knight of Cups DVD, and couldn't decide if I wanted to watch it. So, if you do, let me know what you think.


How was Knight of Cups, Janet?

Seems like upperclass Brits have always been insouciant about pronouncing foreign words any old way they please.

Mother and Child is not available free on Prime.

Well, it's probably been at least 5 years since I watched it, so it may have been then.


Stu, I hate to say this because I'm afraid Craig and Rob might cast me into outer darkness, but I only watched about half an hour of Knight of Cups.


"I especially appreciate that slow pace, though I'd like for some of those long moments to be even longer."

Sounds good. I hope to watch an episode on Youtube when I get some time.

"Oh yeah, that sounds great: two hours of female emotional travail--just what I want to relax with on a Saturday night."


"After seeing it, I would have confidently bet that it is the work of a woman. But unless "Rodrigo" is the name of a woman it is not."

Hard to tell, these days.

""sweet world of sorrow." That sums up our situation pretty accurately, doesn't it?"


" This is a very funny prospect. I expect there are many frightening moments in store for them. The whole country probably ought to have a trigger warning. Especially the South."


I just stumbled on this today and since I'm not on FB anymore I have to share it somewhere. It's a short interview of my mother who is a locally well-known actress in Tasmania.


Karen might like it, because it's also about all the archiving of the local theatre productions that Mum did.

I was actually searching for any online information about a tv show I was in when I was 7. Couldn't find it, unfortunately, but found my Mum instead. :)

I'm feeling rather nostalgic.

I just watched the beginning of 'Civilisation' and am enjoying it! I don't have time to go on with it now, but look forward to watching the rest soon.

I'm already disputing some of his assertions. LOL! Mostly the stuff about the barbarian invasions, but this is the kind of TV I like - I was brought up by the BBC!

"it would have struck me as middle-brow eat-your-cultural-spinach stuff."

Yum :)

I'll have to wait till later (it's bedtime) to listen to the piece about your mother, but that's pretty cool. Sorry you went off Facebook but I don't blame you. I was considering it (again) just a little while ago.

Glad you're enjoying Civilization. We still haven't gotten the second disk.

Okay, I couldn't resist finding out more about Rodrigo Garcia. He both wrote and directed Mother and Child, and he's the son of Gabriel Garcia Marquez, the magical realism fellow. An article on Rodrigo in the Wash. Post says he's "carved out a singular niche in Hollywood as a director who has a special touch with women".

Sorry you went off Facebook but I don't blame you. I was considering it (again) just a little while ago.

Glad you're enjoying Civilization.

Nice juxtaposition there.


Yeah, Facebook is pretty much a wilderness.

Interesting piece, Marianne. Thanks. Not exactly a Catholic propagandist, I think.

No anathema regarding Knight of Cups, Janet! It's a difficult film and one that even Malick fans are divided on. I will say that it didn't exactly wow me the first time I watched it, but I grew to really like it on repeated viewings.

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