That Blockbuster in 2005 Feeling
The Green New Deal


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Hate speech.

It's true. I often say that, in my mind, "food" is essentially carbs: bread, rice, pasta. Other edible things are garnishes or embellishments of that core. The first and most appealing of the garnishes is meat. Vegetables are somewhere down the list, after fruit, cheese, nuts, candy, and a few other things.

However, I do try to eat at least some vegetables every day, and I NEVER let my children think I don't like them.

You think men and women can be friends, but then something like this destroys that illusion.

Do YOU cook the vegetables, Craig, because that might be an underlying cause of avoidance.


I guess it's just biology, Janet. One of those fundamental differences. Do men who identify as women like vegetables, I wonder? I bet they don't.

I've sometimes said that vegetables are stuff you have to chew your way through to get to the food. Food being basically meat--well ok, protein-type stuff in general, including seafood and cheese--and carbs.

"I NEVER let my children think I don't like them." I hear you. I was similarly oppressed for many years and it's nice to be free to express myself fully.

I remember being really put on the spot by one of my children who asked me outright if I liked something that I didn't like. I didn't want to lie and I think I just changed the subject.

That "I NEVER" sentence looks funny without the correct antecedent of "them."

I am glad we're finally getting around to discussing the really important stuff.


It's difficult. You know how reluctant I am to get involved in controversies.

I just remembered that in Barbara Pym books, the women are always talking about how men have to have their meat.


I was a vegetarian for about six years in the early 2000's, and as an Orthodox roughly half of the year are meat-fast days, so I don't find it too much of a problem. For me meat, especially red meat, is more like the garnish nowadays.

My problem is that I tend to replace the meat with carbs instead of veggies and whole grains, which isn't good for you in all sorts of ways. I've found it much more difficult to avoid white flour, potatoes, etc., than to avoid meat

I'm okay going without meat. My wife and I decided a long time ago to follow the old no-meat-on-Friday rule even though it's not a rule anymore. But adding milk products and seafood to that prohibition--I would not be okay with that for very long at all.

I don't mind salads, by the way. Even sort of like them. It's cooked vegetables that give me that ever so slight hint of a turn of the stomach.

For your meatless Fridays, Mac, you could always substitute Marmite for milk products and seafood. Oh, wait, it apparently has cooked celery as one of its ingredients. :)

That's true, celery notwithstanding, but it's rather expensive. Possibly also toxic in large quantities, too.

I'm rather partial to potatoes, carrots, beetroot and peas. And beans if they're in a decent sauce.

Once, I gave up meat for Lent. It didn't take me long to figure out it wasn't much of a sacrifice because I am more than happy with carbs and cheese or eggs or beans. At that time we didn't have meat every night anyway, but when I read Rob's comment I realized that since I quit, we have been having a lot more meat because one of us cooks every night.

I just have this idea in my head that if you have meat, or fish, or chicken as an entree (as opposed to having them in a casserole) you have to have a starch and something green. I a lot more green things than my husband does.


Beans are ok. They can be flavored up pretty well. "beetroot" I assume is what we just refer to as "beets", which are in the barely-able-to-choke-it-down category for me.

"if you have meat, or fish, or chicken as an entree (as opposed to having them in a casserole) you have to have a starch and something green."

Right. Somehow it's part of our psyche and if you don't do it you feel like you've committed some kind of sin against your own health.

This is so controversial I'm concerned that our old friend Art Deco might finally wade back into the waters...

Maybe he would have statistics to prove that vegetables actually aren't good for you.

I love vegetables.

You can have mine.

At the beginning of Lent our priest always advises us that the purpose of the fast is to cut back, not simply to give up meat while replacing it with something else. "No point giving up meat for Lent if you're eating two pounds of pierogies at every meal!" he once said.

"if you have meat, or fish, or chicken as an entree (as opposed to having them in a casserole) you have to have a starch and something green."

A few years back I did a low carb diet for awhile, and the recommendation was to always do something whole grain as your starch, or else replace the starch with an additional veg or legume. So brown rice instead of white, whole wheat bread/pasta, that sort of thing. Tried to avoid corn and potatoes altogether, but the latter were okay occasionally, provided you had them in some form which included the skins.

I remember my doctor telling me that french fries were one of the worst things you could eat -- high fat, high carbs, high sodium, and very little nutritional value.

Obviously that's what makes them so good!

Yeah. It's such a clear and classic example of the effects of the Fall.

Given the post that followed this one, maybe this one should have been titled: "The Green No Deal".

My wife likes us to have a vegetable with dinner each night. Because of this, I have learned that corn and peas are not vegetables! Not that it made me like them better. Apparently lentils are not vegetables either?

I actually have a policy against eating beets. I don't like to be unsure if I'm bleeding internally.

In my taxonomy peas are a vegetable, though corn is not.

I don't have a policy against eating beets but if I should ever be required to present one I'll keep that in mind.

Yes, I should have thought ahead about that title.

I agree- peas are a vegetable. Corn cannot be a vegetable - it's too good (well, fresh corn on the cob is). I try to think of vegetables as food, but I can't help believing they're medicine. Food consists of meat and carbs (and gravy!)

But, I have to say, if I need to eat vegetables (and I guess I do), broccoli isn't bad. Broccoli, asparagus (roasted with just a bit of olive oil), and carrots almost count as food.

We are of very similar mind. It was unfair of me to pick on broccoli, because it's one of the less objectionable vegetables, so we have it a lot, which means I experience its dispiriting effect more often than that of, say, cabbage. Asparagus can actually be sort of good, but it has to be really fresh and perfectly cooked. Overcooked, it's on the disgusting side. I grew up loathing canned asparagus.

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